Bell: Well, miracle of miracles. Thank you, phone company and there is a weblink to Ed's site on my webpage tonight, as well. Ed has a new webpage and I imagine it is even further developed than the last time we spoke, Ed. So, if you want to go to Ed Dame's website, just go to mine and jump across. Ed, can you give us a 6 minute explanation of what you do so everyone will understand what it is they are about to hear? I know it is tiresome to repeat it but, what is.....please....remote viewing.....short version.

Dames: Art, the short version is what my company does for a living and that is Technical Remote Viewing. Technical Remote Viewing is, essentially, using an innate psychic ability....one that we're born with.....it's a trained ability....and the training technique was formerly a top secret technique used by the Department of Defense. I was the operations and training officer for the team that employed it successfully in mostly terrorist operations, drug enforcement operations, those kinds of things.

Bell: By the way, Ed, this really is important because there are a lot of people who will criticize you when you say you were part of the military program. Listen to me folks, say what you will, but I have a copy of Ed's complete military records and what he's telling you is exactly correct. I decided I want to set everybody straight on that particular point. Your military record, Ed, was absolutely exemplary.

Dames: I had a fairly sterling career but I stepped down from fairly celestial levels of intelligence to take the job of operations and training officer in the remote viewing unit because it was, to me, the most significant and the best intelligence collection tool that I had. So I stepped down from....as a targeting officer....an engineer of intelligence operations....to being a participant in just one of the many aspects of intelligence but this one was a very unique one. What we did, was use this tool to locate terrorists, hostages, to accurately describe.....not only the location....but the mind state and the health state of both the terrorists and the hostages. We located downed aircraft from various wars and any number of things in support of, not only intelligence operations, but in support of regular military operations both tactical and strategic.

Bell: Delineate, if you would.....this will make it easier for everybody.....what's the difference between what a psychic does and what you do?

Dames: A psychic is a person who is naturally gifted, to the right on a bell curve of natural performance. A psychic is generally not very consistent in their data. A very good psychic, and there are only a handful in the United States, can really describe a target....a person, place, thing or event....very well....sometimes. The problem is, both the psychic and the information .....people who are acquiring the information produced by the psychic.....do not know when the information is correct and when it is not. The tools that we use, and that we did use in the military and applied them when deadly force was used or in cases where life or death situations prevailed, is an extremely accurate tool. We trust it and it is depended upon. This tool is used to gain information on a target. A target by definition, a simple target, is a person, a place, a thing or an event. This is what I have been trained to do and have been doing for 13 years and this is what my company trains professionals to do now....to solve problems.

Bell: Alright and your company, when it undertakes a project, it is not Ed Dames alone who goes into a room and goes into some sort of altered state and comes up with the answers. It is a group of remote viewers who are given random numbers as target information and, in order for a commercial contract to be completed with 100% accuracy, there is a whole group involved.....correct?

Dames: There are 6 to 8 team members. I have about 30 individuals who work for the company and we divide them up into teams depending on the operation. We usually use 6 to 8 teams members and they work individually and they work independently. Most of the time the individuals do not know what the target is when they first start but, remember, these are trained psychics.... technical remote viewers are trained.....so after about 20 or 40 minutes of working, they are going to know where they're at. When they start out in the blind, so to speak, and that is the term that we use.....eventually they're going to know what they're working.....whether it's the TWA ft.800 explosion or a missing person.

Bell: Alright, it is possible, Ed, to remote view an object or a person or an event in current time.....in our present time line.....or in the future....or in the past....and obviously, it is possible then to remote view the location of what was a person.....somebody who has now passed away....is that correct?

Dames: That's correct. The search terms that we use, and this is very much like searching a database or the Internet......very similar....the terms that we use.....the words or ideas.....the concepts or ideas have a meaning all their own. We go after patterns of information as they exist in the collective unconscious so we will look for someone like Philip Taylor Kramer and then we will append that idea. If we just look at a person....we are just remote viewing a person.....the viewer can come in onto that person's life at any time but if conscious attention and unconscious attention is directed toward qualifying that term: for instance..... present location.....then we are going to go to that person's present location....if that person's deceased, we will go to a grave site. In the case of things like Jimmy Hoffa, where we think we are dealing with an acid bath, there is no site at all.....we simply get the bottom of a pond or something like that....but we know that is the location because of the way that we're trained and the consistency of the data.

Bell: Now, onto Major Ed Dames. All of the heavy hitters that I've had in here, including the CEO of PEAR Inc., including Dr. Michio Kaku, theoretical physicist, and so many others have affirmed....I think to the great surprise of many people....many of you.....the absolute validity of remote viewing. One of the nation's premier remote viewers.....one of the ones involved in the original military remote viewing program....is Major Ed Dames. I suppose that we're going to have to take a second and tell you what remote viewing is so that you understand what you are hearing. So, we will give you the short and quick 101 on remote viewing. Here is Major Ed Dames. Ed, welcome back to the program.

Dames: Good evening, Art. I know you are tired and I wish your friend well.

Bell: Thank you. Ya, it was a harrowing couple of days, to say the least. Anyway, Ed, give us the short 101 just in case there is somebody out there listening to us who has no idea what remote viewing is. Tell us.

Dames: It is a very structured way.....I like to call it the syntax and the grammar....for the way in which one's unconscious mind communicates information to conscious awareness while keeping imagination out of the way and one's personal analysis of what they think the answer to the question may be out of the way.

Bell: In other words, you can actually see an object thousands of miles away and describe it or even sketch it?

Dames: Viewing is a misnomer. I wish that we would have adopted.....when I founded the company, PSI TECH, in 1989, I kept some of the original names for historical purposes. Viewing is really a misnomer, it should be remote perception. Only part of what we do is actually visuals. Most of what we do are deriving ideas......very accurate ideas....that are associated with our targets.

Bell: Maybe remote sensing?

Dames: No, but I'm going to use that word in this discussion about the Phoenix lights.

Bell: Oh, alright.

Dames: Remote perception would be the better one.

Bell: Alright. Well anyway, the ability to discern....briefly.....objects at a great distance or thoughts....I suppose.....at a great distance and add to that....and this is confirmed by Michio Kaku.....Doctor Michio Kaku....that you can look, additionally, into the past....timewise.....or into the future.....timewise. Correct?

Dames: That's correct. Mind is, essentially, outside of space time so think of...if time is the 4th dimension then think of mind as the 5th dimension. It's hovering above, looking left or right and things are sort of at a standstill although, certain events....in what we call the future from our point of reference here in our now....may be fuzzy....sort of over the horizon.

Bell: Okay. We've got some pretty startling stuff, later on, but I thought we would begin with easier stuff and I'm dying to know....you sent me the teasing little fax and you said, 'I know what the Phoenix lights are and what they aren't and what they aren't are military or UFOs.' So, I'm dying to know, Ed. You even said you could reproduce them.

Dames: Actually, we could. Before I do that, there was a caller last hour that talked about paradoxes.

Bell: Oh, yes.

Dames: I would like to give you an example, before we begin, a little anecdotal example of a real paradox that we run into in my business.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: If I were to attempt to.....if I were to remote view the location where you would eat dinner tomorrow night....I could do that......it would not be that difficult to produce information and descriptions about where you would be eating dinner....if you would still be alive. There is a possibility, of course, that you would not make it through the next 24 hours and we would pick that up, too, as experienced technical remote viewers.

Bell: If you do, I don't want to know.

Dames: I wouldn't tell you.

Bell: Thank you.

Dames: If we were to engage in that type of project, then we would very easily be able to describe the place and the circumstances......

Bell: Right.

Dames: Unless, there was any possibility......any possibility existed....that I would tell you what our results were and, in that case, we would not be able to get any usable data at all.

Bell: In other words, if you had determined....before you did the remote viewing....that you were going to garner this information and tell me.....

Dames: Or if unconscious.....the collective unconscious....knew or was aware that there was a possibility that we would do that......then we would not be able to....by hook or by crook....produce information.....correct information about where you would be eating dinner.

Bell: Oh, that's really interesting. So, in other words, the greater consciousness prevents a paradox.

Dames: I think it allows for free will and that's one of the ways that it does that. We take your free will away, in some regards or it doesn't allow for the creation of a paradox.

Dames: Good evening, Art. I caught most of last night's program, it dealt with the TWA 800 and the topic of, perhaps, a missile attack.

Bell: That's right and I know that you, of course, disagree with that and have reached other conclusions. We'll get to that, Ed, but we have a lot of new listeners out there and they have no idea what remote viewing is so just the short version, if you would. You spent years in the military doing it and now years as a civilian so tell people what remote viewing really is.

Dames: We are trained psychics. That's what we were in the military in a top secret unit. We are trained to gather as much general information....data and sketches.... information and sketches......about a target....a person, place, thing, or event....in a 45 minute period. As much data as possible. We are alert and attentive when we do this. It is not an altered state. Generally, what we do is we take advantage of, avail ourselves of a discovery that was made in a laboratory in 1983. The discovery is, in essence, the way the unconscious mind communicates information to conscious awareness. It is sort of the syntax and the grammar for the way it does that, in a way that precludes imagination from information from entering into the process or interfering with that data stream.

Bell: One thing I know you did is locate some gas canisters in Iraq.

Dames: We've done nothing but very high level missions. We're sort of a national asset, if you will. There are very few of us who are trained to the degree that PSI TECH experts are trained and so we generally do high level missions. Although PSI TECH does not engage in government contract work, we will still do initiative projects and that is what we did for the National Transportation Safety Board on the TWA Flight 800. This was an interesting project because, as the operations and training officer for the military psychic team in 1988, we actually broke open the case on the Pan American Flight 103 that exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland. We tracked down, for the FBI, the perpetrators of that event so we found the terrorists. In that case, it was a terrorist attack, and we did find them for the Bureau.

Bell: I recall and again, trying to impart to people what remote viewing is, a remote viewing is a controlled, disciplined individual and when I say controlled.....controlled by somebody else. In other words, they are given a number.....a simple number, as I understand it....and they then do not go into an altered state but begin to form impressions and begin to visualize what the target is. The only thing that I've never clearly understood, at all, about remote viewing is....they are given a number and them somehow they draw pictures of gas canisters and describe a location as though they see it. I have never really understood what that number really represents. How does that person's mind knows what the target is? Is there a communication between the remote viewer and the monitor that goes beyond that number?

Dames: Yes, the number is irrelevant, it is simply for filing purposes and one could as easily say, 'ready, set, go' for every target that we work. There is a communication at the unconscious level. If you do work with a monitor, tantamount to having a navigator in the back seat of an aircraft allegorically speaking, then unconsciously the viewer's unconscious mind picks up the cue....the targeting cue....from the monitor or the tasker. If you work by yourself and you select your own targets.....my company teaches people to do this, to work alone.....one selects one's own targets. Those can be front loaded, which means that you know what the target is, but you are trained to work against blind targets, unconscious is trained to do all of the work. During training......as a control....in technical operations.....we do not allow the viewers to know what the target is.....unconscious must do all of the work. If you are your own tasker....your own targeter.....you select the target yourself and your unconscious mind is not communicating with anybody else.

Bell: I take it, Ed, I know that when you have taken up a specific project, it takes a lot of time. People think that you're a psychic and they can say 'what color is my couch?'. Well, that's not the way it works. Sometimes the work takes days, weeks, or even months to accomplish for a project. People need to understand that. You're not a psychic in the classic sense that people tend to think of psychics, right?

Dames: No, I'm about as naturally psychic as a rock. A natural psychic can walk into a room and pick up certain sensations and know if this is a loving household or a murderous community, that kind of thing. I can't do that but I can run rings around a natural psychic when it comes to detailing exactly what happened at a murder scene, where the murderer is present time, where the victim is, whether the victim is dead or alive, those kinds of things, because of these breakthrough techniques that we used in life or death situations or where deadly force was authorized such as the Libya invasion.

Bell: Alright, let me ask this. An individual who has learned to self-task and remote view through your video tapes or whatever else, would their accuracy rating....percentile rating.....be different than when your company tasks several remote viewers to say look into Flight 800 or whatever? In other words, would there be a difference in the number of hits?

Dames: It isn't measured in terms of hits, it is measured in terms of the quality of the data. Generally speaking, someone who is trained using the TRV tapes, is 80% correct....80% of their data is correct. The most that we, including myself, the best that we as individuals can do....even the experts....is about 90%. There will always be about a 10% to 20% error rate throughout the sessions, however, when a team of remote viewers....including a number of people who have been trained, using the tapes, work together....a team of 5 or 6 people.....when they work alone, independently.....the mutually corroborating data is 100% correct.

Bell: 100%!

Dames: 100%.

Bell: So that when your company tasks a group of viewers and finally puts their name to whatever the conclusion is, you can be damn sure that's gonna be 100% correct.

Dames: Unless it's a jump through the hoop type of situation where there's a stolen nuclear weapon or something like that where we'd have to come up with the data very, very rapidly. It is not real time, it takes about 45 minutes for just one session. In order for us to cross check and double check our work we're going to have to run about 5 remote viewers 3 times each. That's a minimum of 15 remote viewing sessions times 45 minutes to come up to a conclusion that I, as president of the company, would sign my name to.

Bell: The somewhat less than amazing Randi continues to respond in a email war between yourself and his standing challenge and claims that you will not sign and fill out the forms that he requires to do the test that would yield you a million plus dollars, whatever it happens to be right now. As you know, I have invited him on the program and he has refused to come on to set up the conditions of the test. I personally talked to the guy and he was talking about putting a number in a safe and he now denies that he ever said that. Well, he did say it, to me, and then I came on the air and talked to you about it and issued the challenge and every time I do everybody emails the Amazing Randi...less than....and he says he's not going to play the game. He's not going to go on the Art Bell Show and help him increase rates and he just refuses. So, that's where it is now. Do you hear from Randi?

Dames: I hear from his minions or his lackeys on email and frankly, the Amazing Randi can keep his million dollars. I accept his challenge and all I want is for him to eat his hat when we nail his target. He can keep his mil or whatever he has out there. I'm telling you now, I'm telling your listeners, we can do this without any problem whatsoever and I mean it, I stand by that. I do not want his money but I do want to see him eat his hat.

Bell: Well, I thought it reasonable that he come on the program, not for some spectacular deal, but just to simply, publicly, set up the conditions of the test. I didn't like the idea that he was going to put the numbers in his safe. It ought to be very controlled, in a third party locations, it seems to me.

Dames: Of course. What we suggested was....a good way to do that was to have a neutral party simply write the name of a target on a piece of paper and place that paper in a safe somewhere. That's all that we require because, you see, how we work....there is chain of custody at the unconscious level. Whoever is the tasker, the universal mind....the collective unconscious......or actually what we call the Matrix, in our business.....it knows what's going on. My old boss used to say, "It's okay to fool the enemy but it's not okay to fool yourself." We know what the task is. As soon as we turn our attention to the task, unconscious attention follows.

Bell: When you were in the military program, Ed, obviously the military was only concerned with the here and now......targets, biological canisters, whatever it was they were after......it was military oriented stuff. I'm curious, at what point did it dawn on the rv'ers that you could actually not just look at present time but you could travel in time? You could look at the past or even, more importantly, look at the future? When did it dawn on all of you that it was possible?

Dames: It started happening, actually, in the laboratory before the formation of the military team. Viewers were slipping around in time. They were describing targets in the docket....that were 2 up in the docket or a target that had been chosen the day before, those kinds of things, so viewers were very loose in time. We had to tighten that structure up. Mind is outside of time.

Bell: Was that a disturbing thing for the remote viewers to find out?

Dames: It was disturbing for the researchers because it meant there was no control and that, since it was a government controlled project, if they could not know where the viewer was in time they could not sell this to the Department of Defense.

Bell: Do you think that is actually what ended the official military program?

Dames: No, that's not what ended it. It ended because all of the controls became so lax and loose that is was no longer functional.

Bell: Gotcha. Alright, Ed Dames....Major Ed Dames......PSI TECH's Ed Dames is my guest. Now I think you might have a little bit of an idea of what remote viewing is.

Bell: Alright, a lot of people....of course....don't know what remote viewing is. We've got a lot of new affiliates....for example, CKLW Windsor Detroit is listening right now. They probably never heard Major Ed Dames so, the usual 101 on remote viewing. What is it?

Dames: Okay, here we go. You used the term, a moment ago, disciplined psychics and that is very close if not a good appellation for what we, as technical remote viewers, are. The program was top secret for about 20 years, mostly under the Army auspices. For a while under the Defense Intelligence Agency, at the very end....the last year....the remnants of the program was turned over to the CIA and then it was abandoned completely. I took, as former Operations Officers for the unit, I took....in 1989, when I founded PSI TECH....the best and the brightest of the military remote viewers and formed the company. When the military abandoned these techniques and threw them out because they were so controversial, I took the remote viewers and formed the company. In fact, the United Nations was one of our first clients. They approached us to help find Saddam Hussein's biological warfare stockpiles.

Bell: In fact, I know, I saw in the video you located some gas canisters in Iraq.

Dames: That's right and that was done per request of the United Nations inspection team who could not...by hook or crook....find them. I had some old cronies, in the National Security Council, who tipped them off that we could find them and indeed we did. That was 1991.

Bell: It's sounds like they could use you again, right now. They're having the same problem, magnified many times, right now.

Dames: I'd like to talk about that a little bit tonight because that harks back to the very reason that we need a tool like this. The tool is a way that any person can be trained....in a breakthrough technique...that allows that person to be better than the best natural psychics that ever lived and that is saying quite a bit. That was the breakthrough discovery that came out of the laboratory, in 1983, that I took into the deep dark world of intelligence and made it into a militarily useful tool. Prior to that, in cases where we could not ferret out secrets.....foreign secrets. For instance, the erstwhile Soviet biological warfare problem and some of their nuclear work......particularly SS18 missile, were real bug bears to intelligence and we could not gain sufficient enough intelligence to be able to make state policy decisions and to tailor our defenses to potential agents and potential weapons. We needed more information.

Bell: Why was it harder?

Dames: Because those kinds of programs.......weapons of mass destruction, that's the Soviet term.....are protected at the highest levels. They are the most secret programs. Biological warfare......there are other reasons why BW, biological warfare, is protected and I will get into those, also, but we could not penetrate those programs.

Bell: Ed, is it reasonable to conclude that the Soviets.....at that time, even Iraq.....may be aware of remote viewing capabilities and have taken some measures to protect against you guys?

Dames: The Soviets were well aware. In fact, we played cat and mouse...what I call the 'war in the ether'. I think Jim Marrs borrowed that term, 'war in the ether'. We played cat and mouse with our Soviet counterparts who were natural psychics. They knew that we were remote viewing them, that we were perceiving their operations and we, as a military team.....a top secret military team.....were aware that they were doing the same to us. So, they were aware but there are no defensive measures. You hear all the time, 'can we put up some kind of an energy screen....this and that.....faraday shields'.....there are no protective measures. When I go into the theory behind remote viewing, you'll understand why. The Iraqis, on the other hand....in the Islamic world.....what we do is considered to be an act of Satan. This is really verboten in that religion. The Iraqi newspapers, furthermore, in the Gulf War....the last Gulf War.....they accused PSI TECH and myself of attempting to make Saddam Hussein sick. Now, we cannot do that because that is an active psychokinesis or telekinesis modality. We don't do that.

Bell: I know it's being worked on.

Dames: Actually, PSI TECH is working on that now but we did not have that capability, in 1991. If we did, we would have used it, obviously. That would be a nifty tool but we didn't have that and we weren't making him sick. Were we gathering information about his battle plans? Yes! Were we gathering intelligence about where his clandestine or hidden stockpiles of weapons were? Yes! We were doing that.

Bell: We've got to back up. I know it's tough but tell people a little bit about the military project, how PSI TECH came to be and what remote viewing is........all 101, short version.

Dames: Okay. About 1982, there was a breakthrough discovery, in a laboratory, on the U S west coast. That breakthrough discovery was a means by which anyone, using innate faculties....the powers that we're born with......could use certain rigorous protocols.......that became top secret.....to be able to discern how the unconscious mind accurately transmits information to conscious awareness. This act was called remote viewing and a team of military individuals.....now, we were not psychics.......we were officers right off the streets......a prototype team employed this breakthrough technique to discern how far we could push this technique to use to gather information against very intractable strategic intelligence targets. When we began to utilize this and to investigate the tool we found that our work.....the results of our work.....surpassed even the work of even the best natural psychics who had ever lived.

Bell: Wow!

Dames: So, that was indeed a breakthrough. Prior to that breakthrough, the military was using a team of psychics......these were gifted individuals......in an attempt to gain some additional information against very intractable intelligence problems. That was a hit and miss type of a project. It was, to a certain degree, workable but nothing like what we have today in terms of Technical Remote Viewing, at PSI TECH.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: I stepped down from a very celestial level of intelligence at the office of the Secretary of Defense, where I was a targeting officer. I chose what intelligence targets this nation would go up against......what kind of missiles foreign countries had.......

Bell: Ed, did you actually make the choices yourself or did.......I would think a lot of that would come from on high.

Dames: I got to make the choices myself. There are a handful of intelligence officers, in two of this countries services, who are allowed to do that. Some of us have carte blanche......our choice of jobs. We were water-walkers and I chose to step down and become the operations and training officer of this particular unit. This was one of the many sources of intelligence that I used to fulfill my mission and to orchestrate new intelligence collection missions. This was just one aspect of intelligence but it was so interesting to me that I wanted to spend all of my time in it so I stepped down to do it.

Bell: Fascinating. So, your total involvement with the military project was how long?

Dames: It was about 5 years with the remote viewing unit and, within that 5 years, I developed the training protocols that were used up until the end of the unit's history......just prior to Project Stargate.

Bell: So, you wrote the manual.

Dames: I did not write the manual. The manual was actually written by a colleague of mine.

Bell: Metaphorically, I meant. In other words, you developed the protocols.

Dames: I took the protocols down from a 6 month training regime to about 3 weeks and at PSI TECH we taught this to scientists and engineers in a 10 day, very intensive project. I cut all the fat off the training program.....the training regime.....and modified it and finessed it.

Bell: The military protocols that you came up with and that eventually were literally put into a manual, they are still the ones that you use with very little modification, aren't they?

Dames: Oh no, absolutely not. That was called coordinate remote viewing. The standard operating procedure that we had in our manual....that we did, indeed, write at the unit......was called coordinate remote viewing. That was 15 years ago so what Technical Remote Viewing is, what PSI TECH has developed, is far and above removed......it's about as different as a bi-plane from an F15......very, very much enhanced and improved techniques.

Bell: There are many other remote viewers who we will not name. I have interviewed many of them. Many of those remote viewers have, themselves, modified the protocols. Have they gone too far?

Dames: Some of them were really never expert in the first place. There were some of the original, natural team members.......Joe McMoneagle, for instance......served his country very well. He was a natural psychic. He did not know how to train remote viewing nor does he know how to utilize the techniques we do, today. He's a gifted, natural psychic and he was used in a number of intelligence operations. Former Captain Paul Smith was a very good remote viewer. Paul and I worked together many times but Paul only knows the original protocols so he is about 15 years behind the times in terms of technology but, nevertheless, he can still fly that bi-plane very well. The other remote viewers did not teach, they never taught, they were either remote viewers or they were facilitators.

Bell: Alright, remote viewing allows one to see an object or geography or even people at any distance, literally, and remote viewing also allows one to virtually travel in time.

Dames: Up to a certain point, in the future, at least, to sort of an 'event horizon'.

Bell: When I say travel in time, I don't want people to be in error out there, not physically travel in time but travel in time and visualize things as you would visualize in the present time line.....is that correct?

Dames: Well, it's a way......rigorous protocols that are learned. This is a learned, taught technique and, as you well know, our company teaches this via tapes. We are able, as remote viewers, to discern a tremendous amount of information....data.....about a target......a person, place, thing or event.....anywhere in space time.

Bell: Okay, let me back up a little bit. The military had you doing work like looking for gas canisters and that sort of obvious military work and that's what they would be interested in. During the course of that military operation, when did it occur to the team that they could look at more than the present tense.....more than the present time? When did that dawn on the team?

Dames: It happened by accident. I'll give you an example. When we search out a specific target, if we do not constrain the search to time.....to the present, the future or the past......then we don't know where we are in time. Think of searching a database.....any database, the internet or library......if you're going after a book......say, the history of Europe......you want to constrain the search to a certain era.....a certain point in time.....let's say the early 17th century. If we don't specify an era and that condition is not present on our search....the way that we do our search.....this is a very alert state, you are sitting up, you have a pen in your hand, there is a plain white paper in front of you and you go through all of these protocols.....if we don't do that, we do not know where we are in time. We could, following along with this example, we could be in Europe......somewhere.....but if we do not constrain the search to a particular era, let's say the past, we could just as well slip into the future. It was in this way that we discovered that we could move in time by......for instance......we were tracking the Russian Space Program, using remote viewing. One day, I an Mel Riley.....another one of the remote viewers.....we were describing a Russian space launch and we tracked this back to it's base where the rocket took off, the cosmonauts came back to Earth and we were interested in one of the cosmonauts that we suspected of being a KGB scientific intelligence technical officer. We were interested in this individual. We locked onto the individual and we followed him forward in time....point to point.....describing each place that he went in time. When we tracked him, we noticed that he crossed the Brandenburg Gate, in Berlin, and there was no Berlin Wall.

Bell: Right.

Dames: We could not understand what was going on. We adhered very, very strictly to our rigorous protocols and yet we could not pick up the idea of the Berlin Wall on this Brandenburg Gate. He just drove right through on his way to Germany. So, we thought that something went wrong but what went wrong was that we were looking at a space program.....a Russian rocket launch.....that was in the future and we could not conceive of a time when there was no Berlin Wall. This is long before the Cold War was over. What we had done was slip in time because we had not constrained the search....that is the idea of tracking the Russian space program......in time. All we did was look at the Russian space program and our unconscious mind just carried that forward through time.

Bell: That's remarkable.

Dames: That's how we discovered that you have to be very, very careful.....actually, I discovered that one must be very careful and nail down the viewer's unconscious mind.....which we're using as a tool.....to temporally as well as spatially.

Bell: So, in a way, you've got the only known.....working.....time travel that we have, right now?

Dames: In terms of data collection only.

Bell: Yes, of course.

Dames: In terms of describing things about the past, present and future, yes, we're the only game in town.

Bell: Ed, here's the way I want to start the program, tonight. You were kind enough, or somebody at your office was, to send a video tape with some of your promotional material on it. I guess you had been visited by a UPN reporter who was a skeptic. I know how that works. They come in with a reporter and a camera crew and sounds and wires and plugs and lights and stuff like that. They actually put you and your company to the test....right on the spot.....didn't they?

Dames: They did. We have to stand and deliver, as business people.

Bell: That's quite a challenge. I would have thought very hard before accepting it, only because of the difficult conditions. I mean, with reporters around and lights and all the plugs and wires. You would have to worry that you would not be able to properly concentrate but I guess that's what the discipline of remote viewing is all about. You actually allowed them to do a test on camera and it was a very carefully controlled test. There were......am I correct......was it three sets of four numbers generated.....is that correct?

Dames: We don't consider these tests, Art. They're just day to day work for us so all that we see this as is someone coming in with a camera and filming us at work. This was a real world problem.

Bell: Oh, I understand but, I mean, you weren't concerned that the distractions would somehow affect the result.

Dames: Not at all. We're professionals. They would affect the results of a trainee.....someone new with less than six months of training but that is not the case with professionals like us.

Bell: Alright, so the target was assigned random numbers and I think that was four sets of three numbers. Is that correct?

Dames: We standardized the procedure and it's two sets of four digit numbers. It's a set of two, four digit numbers picked at random.

Bell: Oh, I see, alright. In this case, they were picked by the camera man, is that so?

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: Then, these numbers were given to you and you gave them to your staff member.

Dames: I gave it to my vice president who was the closest employee, at the time, in a side office. Now, remember, we had generated the target first. They had chosen a problem set. That is chosen, first, and written up and then the random numbers are assigned to the problem.

Bell: You knew what the target was?

Dames: I did.

Bell: Yes, and the camera man and the reporter knew what the target was.

Dames: That's correct. They knew what the problem was.

Bell: Yes, the problem. However, Joni did not know....did she?

Dames: My VP was blind, what we call 'blind to the target'. When we work normally, we work with a number of controls and we work with a number of sessions. Half of our staff works the problem solo.....by themselves.....with only the numbers and then for our finessed sessions....where we get down and do the actual drawings and sketches....those are worked with a monitor.

Bell: But the reporter assured us that she was blind of the target, for sure.

Dames: Joni Dourif had no idea what the target was. It could have been anything.

Bell: That's right. The reporter verified that. Then she came into the room and sat down. She was read the numbers.....the sets of numbers....and she began writing things down.

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: Whirling motion....motion....turning.....dropping.....going down....is what she came up with. Then she came up with.....if I recall correctly......four people inside an object..... falling.....whirling. Then she came up with another cylindrical object away from the first object.

Dames: The key was the oblong, rotating object that was disattached. It was not attached to the structure with the people in it.

Bell: That's exactly right and, in the end, we found out the target had been what, Ed?

Dames: The target was the cause of the Los Angeles Fire Department helicopter crash. We were looking at the cause, seeking to find out whether it was wind sheer, pilot error, altercation, mechanical failure, coffee falling into the console, anything.

Bell: What it could have been, yes. Alright, then the reporter.....after verifying that everything was straight.....and they had really conducted a tight, strict test.....showed, in fact, that crash and what had happened is the LA Fire Department helicopter crashed and the rear portion of it.....the tail portion of it with the rotor on it....was found how far from the.......?

Dames: About a mile away.

Bell: About a mile away.

Dames: The tail rotor had separated from the boom.

Bell: And that is exactly what Joni had found.

Dames: That was a rough, first session. That was a probe into the crash and, ordinarily, we would have conducted 6 to 8 session on that.....with controls.

Bell: And, in fact, the reporter then said that the cause of the crash was thought to be metal fatigue, in that back portion, that broke it off, correct?

Dames: Correct.

Bell: So, Joni nailed all of this in one session and then the reporter.....at the end.....at UPN....comes back and says, "I don't know about you but I'm telling you.....this is amazing! What I saw was amazing!" She again verified, very carefully, the conditions under which the test was done. How long did it take to do that one session?

Dames: Forty-five minutes, that's how long we spend on a session. We can only maintain high state of attention for about 45 minutes and this requires that you be very awake and alert. Think about working a math problem. You wouldn't want to spend more than about 45 minutes hovering over a math problem before you needed to stand up and take a break so that's what we do.

Bell: It works.

Dames: People are pretty astounded when they see this for the first time. We are noticing that, with our video training tapes, that children, who walk up to their parents with these kinds of sketches and sessions, are astounding their parents the same way. We see this all the time, in our business.

Bell: I'm curious, are children quicker, faster learners in the world of remote viewing?

Dames: Yes, they're faster learners....particularly high school age children.....but they're not as good at problem solving as someone in their 30's. A good age for a professional is 30's plus, however, people in their teens and their 20's learn much faster.

Bell: However, the life experience of somebody at least in their 30's, is what you want...to have some understanding of what is being seen.

Dames: That's correct. They need to have lived long enough to be able to hang a label.....an idea.....a meaning word.....onto a perception that they're picking up from their unconscious. We call that one's thesaurus. Actually, I borrowed that term from my former Russian KGB counterpart. One's thesaurus is their net sum of labels that they have, their experiences in life. So, children for instance.....although they're a lot of fun to train.....they are thesaurus limited. A child, for instance, in Stage 4 of training where.....that's an advanced stage.....if a child was target against.....let's say.....a man who had just lost a loved one. The child would be able to describe a man, somewhere.....that would be the target.....but, when we go in to break out all of the associative detail that is associated or connected with that target person....a child might only be able to say, "Well, this person, this man feels bad,' because they had never experienced, perhaps, grief, angst, pathos, all the wide range of things that us adults normally undergo.

Bell: Sure. Alright, I have very, very little doubt that remote viewing is an absolutely valid discipline. The one area of it that I have not been so sure about, is the ability to actually look at targets in the past or in the future. How can you explain that? I understand how you could see something in the present timeline but, as I understand time, I don't understand how you can move out of that present timeline and move into the future or into the past. How do you do that?

Dames: Well, when we remote view, we've always remote viewing things in the past.....what we call, in linear time, the past.....anyway. The moment that we have a percept, the 'now' that we know is gone. We have moved forward. You understand what I'm saying?

Bell: I suddenly do. In other words, I relate it...for example....to the helicopter crash. You were viewing something that happened in the past.

Dames: That's correct. If I were to put my pen to paper, now, and to....let's say....one of your transmitters somewhere, I would always be one step behind. I would always be remote viewing something that was in my past.

Bell: That's right. That's true.

Dames: We have this moving moment but, in fact, that's not the case. It's an erroneous idea of time. Mind is outside of time.

Bell: Outside of time, altogether.

Dames: So, it's as if....think of time as the fourth dimension.....mind is in the fifth dimension and it's looking down at this 'timescape' where all events exist.....let's say.....simultaneously. There are some very good books on quantum theory that are out for....I won't say they are layman's books but they describe what, in new age terms, is called the eternal now.....in quantum terms....very, very effectively. The Fabric of Reality, by David Deutch is a good book and there are many others that are very apropos to the layman, essentially saying that time does not flow the way we experience it. It just exists as a moment, a single moment. All things exist and yet, they're not manifest..... in a strange way. We don't experience them or bring events into our experience unless we live these moments. So, there seems to be two timelines. One is not a timeline at all, it's just an eternal moment. The other is the way we experience time, which is in a linear sense.

Bell: Is it fair to say.....would the collective consciousness be a fair term?

Dames: Collective unconscious is a good term to use.....Carl Jung's term.....the Matrix is our technical term but, in reality, there are many things that I don't like to say.....as a businessman.....because I'm in a business.......PSI TECH is a corporation.

Bell: Sure.

Dames: If I were the director of a an institute or a research center, then I would speak differently. For instance, instead of saying Matrix or collective unconscious, I would use the term 'the universal mind'.... mind that is much, much more powerful and omnipotent than the collective unconscious which we believe to be all minds that are human or intelligent.

Bell: Did you hear portions, at least, of the Gordon Michael Scallion show the other night?

Dames: I did.

Bell: When he was describing the realm in which he is able to view events in the future, it sounded an awful lot, to me, like descriptions you have given to me of what you do....in the past, on these shows.

Dames: I think that Mr. Scallion's descriptions are more connected with visuals.

Bell: They are.

Dames: In fact he called them visions, where in our work, visuals are just one small aspect of what we do. We download.....very accurately and rigorously.....ideas. Sometimes those ideas trigger a visual memory but many times they don't, they simply become ideas that are expressed in terms of words.

Bell: Yes, but is it not communication....probably.....from the same realm?

Dames: My guess is yes. My guess is yes.

Bell: That's my guess, too.

Dames: By the way, Art, that UPN session is posted on our website in it's entirety.

Art Bell: Let’s give them a little idea. Remote viewing folks is something the U.S. Military has worked on for about 20 years, that’s a verified fact, secretly. I think they’re still doing it, and if they’re not then they’re about to be doing it again, but I think they’ve always been doing it. It’s secret, it was secret, and then there was the Nightline program all about it, and that’s kind of how remote viewing broke. Remote viewing is I guess Ed is it fair to say, you are a disciplined psychic? You have developed discipline, protocols, that allow you or anybody, you say, usually, to do what you do to develop and nurture psychic ability, that we all naturally have, with disciplined protocols. And so to remotely view an object, a person, whatever. Is that…

Ed Dames: That’s close enough for government work, Art. I eschew the term as you know psychic, but we really can’t divorce ourselves from it, because we are availing ourselves as Technical Remote Viewers of that same faculty that allows natural psychics -- and I’ll be talking about a great gifted natural psychic in this show -- to do what they do. Now, what they do is unfortunately not consistent, not consistent enough, that is, natural psychics, who are not consistent enough or those of us who had very hard and fast strategic intelligence problems, to solve, to be useful. We had to have something that was consistent, that worked all the time, and that was dependable enough to use in life or death situations or where deadly force was authorized.

Art Bell: If you take a naturally gifted psychic, and I know ‘cause I do this program, there are such people, and then you train them in remote viewing, then you’ve really got somebody on your hands, huh?

Ed Dames: Yes we do but I’ve found that many times when you do that, and you attempt, you can really make an all-star. Not nearly a professional out of a naturally-gifted person, but -- they stop short. They do not continue the rigor that is required to make them a pro. They reach a certain point very early in their training, where I as their instructor see them perform in an exemplary manner, and they look at their results, results that were better than they’ve ever experienced in their psychic lives before, and they quit. Right there, they say this is fantastic, I’ve got what I need…

Art Bell: Thank you goodbye…

Ed Dames: And I’m holding the door open as they’re walking down the street saying “wait wait you’ve just started,” and they’re not willing to hang in there to do what it takes to become experienced.

Art Bell: I am sure that’s true, now in the original program, there was Joe McMoneagle, he was a natural wasn’t he?

Ed Dames: Joe was and is a natural, yes.

Art Bell: Is, yeah, as a matter of fact I interviewed…

Ed Dames: One of the, in the days where we employed altered states in our work, rather than Technical Remote Viewing or what was called, it’s predecessor, Coordinate Remote Viewing, our team employed natural states, altered states. Mel Riley, Joe McMoneagle were two of our nations first remote viewers.

Art Bell: And very accurate once, but what you have just said I find to be credible, in other words when the naturals come to you, they learn your protocols, they expand their abilities and then on they go.

Ed Dames: It reminds me of a good analogy would be teaching someone to fly an aircraft. Once they attain lets say, a student’s pilot rating, they’re on their own in an aircraft, the idea with many remote viewers is well I don’t need to continue my education, I’m flying, but when the first storm hits, allegorically speaking, or day turns to night, or something goes wrong with one of the engines, again allegorically speaking, their lack of experience causes them to crash and burn.

Ed Dames: Let me give you a quick review for those new listeners.

Art Bell: Sure sure…

Ed Dames: A quick review of what we do. All ideas and things in the universe, in time/space, exist in what we call, in our vernacular, a matrix. They exist as patterns of information within this matrix. Their template, their identity, sort of the wavelength that they transmit on, through time/space, that is this pattern of information, in Technical Remote Viewing we train a person’s unconscious to search out a specific pattern, and to accurately communicate the data that’s connected with that pattern, to conscious awareness. From unconscious to collective unconscious if you will, to conscious awareness. And then we objectify that data in the form of words and sketches.

Art Bell: Does this information that you get Ed, come from the collective unconscious? Is that correct? Is that fair?

Ed Dames: I think that’s its more than the collective unconscious but I’m not really sure, we have working hypotheses and we have models but we do not have a theory -- we’ll leave that as I’ve said in the past to academicians to develop theory and that’s coming, sooner or later -- but we’re not sure if the matrix is synonymous with the collective unconscious, for other technical reasons I don’t want to go into. But this is a skill.

Art Bell: I understand that. Give me your best guess about how you’re able to do what you do, if it is not the collective unconscious or conscious, what do you believe that it is, personally, what does Ed Dames think?

Ed Dames: I think that mind is unitary. That there is only one mind-field and that we’re all immersed in it, so all, it’s sort of like a hologram, the idea of the universe as holographic. Mind is also akin to that idea. We’re immersed in this field, think of radio waves always penetrating the atmosphere and our bodies. Well we’re part, our pattern as we exist is part of this grand pattern, we have access at any given time in our holographic sense to all other patterns, but not just in the moment, throughout time/space.

Art Bell: Umm, there are theoretical physicists, I just interviewed Mitchu Okaku again, who believe firmly in this multiple dimensional thing. Ed do you think that this ties in, in other words, that there are other worlds, operating virtually in the same space that we are, but in another dimension? One that one is able to access when one remote views, for example? In other words are you crossing those boundaries?

Ed Dames: Yes, we feel a with a great deal of certainty that there are other dimensions and other intelligences that inhabit those dimensions, but because of the way we’re constructed, our physical bodies, our mind is interfaced with this physical body that has a bicameral brain, our receivers, our bodies as a transducer, is limited. We cannot fathom, ideationally, the kinds of entities and the kinds of physicality that exist in these other dimensions, so we’re really hardware limited by our hardware, by our hard-wiring in that we just can’t pull it out. We cannot, we’re bandwidth limited, our moments for instance is about, a third of a second is a moment to human beings is a moment of time, a moment ago I was talking about bandwidth limitations. That’s how our life flows. And in other dimensions it’s not quite like that. Time flows, the frequencies are different, and so we’re very limited in terms of understanding these other dimensions but we very much agree that they’re there. For instance, you know as I’ve said on your program in the past that we are quite certain that angels for instance are real. They’re real beings. But they certainly do not inhabit at least day to day and our working world where the rubber meets the road, our own reality and this dimension. Nor do we when we go to our souls when we die.

Art Bell: Many people believe that angels have the power to intervene occasionally. Do you think they do?

Ed Dames: Yes, absolutely.

Art Bell: They do?

Ed Dames: Absolutely.

Art Bell: Alright, Ed we've got to do what we haven't done, I think for a show or two because there are so many new affiliates and that is I know, somewhat painful, but we've got to tell people what Remote Viewing is, and then specifically sort of transition, I suppose we ought to begin with the military program, and move forward to Technical Remote Viewing as you have developed it.

Ed Dames: Let me make it as short and painless as possible then. I was the Operations and Training Officer for a very secret military unit, it's existence was only divulged to the public when I took the technology public, and then again to the media about 2 years ago...

Art Bell: Nightline program.

Ed Dames: Yes, that's correct.

Art Bell: Boy what a shocker that was for everybody. One night there's Ted Koppel actually revealing to all of America, that we had this program for twenty years, called Remote Viewing. Now what is everybody will say, and this will prevent the questions I hope, Ed, everybody writes me and says, "God what is remote viewing? What is it?"

Ed Dames: Well, the easiest way to explain it is the following. If you think of the entire universe consisting of information, everything that exists as a pattern of information, some single dimensional space somewhere. Think of a computer disk. Except for this information, this library, is active. It isn't passive like a regular library or a random access memory disk. So it's as if you are at, your personal unconscious mind is interfacing with a library that's talking to you. And the way that the books are stored, in this collective unconscious, is in the form of information patterns. Each of these patterns is unique for every person, every place, every thing and every event. What Remote Viewing is, the way that we began it in the military, was a way of turning our unconscious mind towards, and this is a trainable thing, we learned that we could train it, turning your unconscious mind toward these specific patterns of information that we were interested in. And in a consistent and very accurate manner, producing descriptions in terms of words, and sketches about these patterns, these targets. It's come a long way since then, it's essentially the way that the unconscious mind communicates data to conscious awareness, and when we train this.

Art Bell: Ed, let me ask this, would it be the kind of like the equivalent of opening a dictionary and finding a specific piece of information on a certain page?

Ed Dames: It's more like an internet search, or a library search for those of you who don't use the internet. You fill out your library card, and you give it to the librarian, and if you're interested in, lets say Abraham Lincoln, the librarian comes back with several books, or tomes, on Abraham Lincoln. If you're interested in something that's more specific that only existed momentarily, then you might only get one book. If you conducted a library search or an internet search on something that was an abstract or general term like "Y2K," you'd get half the library. Because you're dealing with a very general term that is associated with other abstract ideas, a problem for instance, that affects many different things. And so, for us, in our library search of what we call the Matrix, a collective unconscious, this is a very unwieldy search term. But at any rate, we learned how to train people to do this, and the way that we train, the way that I trained my military team, the way that we train civilians now via our tapes, our Remote Viewing tapes, we train their unconscious to do all of the work, by only giving conscious awareness a number, and that is all that conscious awareness has, just a number that is associated - think of it as a library card number, next in line - your unconscious mind has to do all the work. And the real breakthrough in Technical Remote Viewing was teaching people the protocols the methods and the techniques to make sure that their unconscious mind turns itself toward the right pattern of information and that the information that is objectified in terms of words and sketches about the target is correct. This took a long time to develop in the military. After it was developed I took it out the military in about 1990, and turned it into what is known today as Technical Remote Viewing, which is a much more evolved form, all the bugs, the errors have been worked out of the techniques.

Art Bell: Now my audience should know I have a complete copy of your military record, and it is everything that you say it is. It was sent to me, I don't know, a couple years ago, three years ago maybe. And so I've got a full copy of your military record and I know that what you're saying is absolutely true. People though still are a little bit lost when you say "a number." Now I happen to know sort of the way it works, in other words the control person, who's running or managing I guess would be the right word a team of Remote Viewers or one Remote Viewer, will assign a number to something they want tasked, finding a gas canister in Iraq for example or whatever. They will assign a number to that, and the number is the only thing given to the Remote Viewer.

Ed Dames: That's correct.

Art Bell: And I have never understood, and I still don't understand, how the assignment, how that number a random number, represents anything at all.

Ed Dames: It's not so much that it represents anything, the reason that we need a number is as a cutout. We need to keep the Remote Viewer blind, so that their conscious awareness does not interfere, they're guessing, or "well this must be," or preconceived notions about the target, does not interfere with the pure stream of data associated with the target. And let me back off for a moment and I'll tell you what I mean.

Art Bell: OK.

Ed Dames: Suppose you were the tasker, and you were interested in where a missing person was located.

Art Bell: OK.

Ed Dames: Alright, let's say this was John Doe, and you wanted a trained Remote Viewer to find, to look at the present location of John Doe.

Art Bell: That would be you, Ed Dames, OK.

Ed Dames: OK, now let's say you're the tasker, you choose that target. You want me to work the target.

Art Bell: Yes, that's right.

Ed Dames: So, you're going to simply in your own mind decide, unequivocally, that that's what you want to do, it's a decision that you make. Conscious awareness makes that decision.

Art Bell: On the part of the tasker, yes.

Ed Dames: On the part of the tasker. I, on the part of the Remote Viewer, we have an agreement. I agree to remote view your target. Now I do not know consciously what your target is but my unconscious, knows.

Art Bell: How?

Ed Dames: Your unconscious passes to my unconscious the target.

Art Bell: That's telepathy Ed.

Ed Dames: Not telepathy, Art. In that way it is, actually that is telepathy, just that part is telepathy. I agree with you there. But, the rest is not, because my unconscious mind has to find your target. And that's not telepathy because you don't know what the target is yourself.

Art Bell: Why as a tasker would it not be more of a sure thing and less troublesome for me to say, "We're after John Doe." Even show you a picture of John Doe and say, "Here is the person we're trying to locate."

Ed Dames: Well only a professional Remote Viewer can get away with doing that because, professionals are not stymied by the problem of having preconceived notions about the target. I could get away with doing that as a professional. A new trainee, someone who has been doing this less than a year would have a very difficult time, for instance, what caused flight TWA 800 to explode? All the kinds of ideas and the press and the conspiracies and the possibilities would be swimming around in a new TRV trainee's head...

Art Bell: I see, I see...

Ed Dames: And that would interfere with this process so we want to keep the new Remote Viewer in the blind, so when someone trains to do this by themselves, they select a target, they have a target pool, that they're interested in as individuals, but when they work as a new trainee, they pull one of those targets that only have a number on it, and they do not associate with a known target, so that the information stays pure. In fact, our accuracy rates as trainees are 80%, that is, there is a 20% error rate. But as a team, the accuracy rate on the mutually corroborating data, where two viewers say the same thing, two viewers that worked a problem, and come up with the same information, that's 100%. And that's the kind of information we used in the military. 100% information, when matters of life or death prevail.

Art Bell: In the beginning, what kind of targets was the military interested in, or is that something you still cannot speak about?

Ed Dames: We were interested almost exclusively in strategic weapons, very high-level targets in mostly Russia, to some degree China. Mostly our targets were, "What's inside that building," because at that time, our technologies, our advanced technologies and exotic technologies were not good enough to see, I use that term loosely, inside of buildings. Either from space or from somewhere else.

Art Bell: A matter of curiosity, Ed. During the program itself, when you would give, let's say, the military hierarchy an answer to "what's inside that building," would they have enough confidence in what you said to dispatch human assets who might be at risk, physically at risk to blow up or whatever what you have said in that building? Did they have that kind of confidence in you?

Ed Dames: Never that kind of confidence. In intelligence collection you never go, or you never try to go with a single source of intelligence. You want to combine human intelligence with signal intelligence, with photo intelligence, to look at the pattern that emerges before you act on the information.

Art Bell: That makes sense.

Ed Dames: My job was to actually orchestrate intelligence collection missions and I would never go with a single source, not even what came to coin, the term I coined was PSIINT, psychic intelligence. So these days, I as president of PSI TECH, I act upon our information because we've spent so many years against certain targets, and have collected so much information against them that I don't need to corroborate it with other sources of information, and indeed sometimes, especially in terms of enigma, scientific enigma, Remote Viewing, Technical Remote Viewing, is the only way to get a handle on it, to even get the first piece of the puzzle.

Art Bell: What made you leave the military Ed? Why'd you leave?

Ed Dames: Freedom. Freedom to do as I wanted to do, and to a certain degree I was... just personal reasons. I was not happy with the numbers of lives we were taking for the reasons that we were taking them. I'd rather not talk about that. Once an officer as you know, once an officer starts to disagree with policy, with your nation's policy, it's time you take the uniform off.

Art Bell: Boy, that really makes me want to ask another question.

Ed Dames: Shoot.

Art Bell: You disagreed with our nation's policy, with regard no doubt to your mission, which had to Remote Viewing, or how you were being tasked, or...

Ed Dames: No, it had nothing to do with Remote Viewing, that was just a matter of frustration. It had to do with two separate things. One was the number of lives that we took in Desert Storm, what I believe to be unnecessarily.

Art Bell: The American people don't know, do they?

Ed Dames: No they do not really know what the damage that we did...

Art Bell: Early in the coverage, Ed, on CNN, they just by accident happened to show some of the Apaches going down these long dug-in bunkers and, just mowing people down by the thousands...

Ed Dames: It was worse than that.

Art Bell: And then they showed earth-moving equipment burying people alive and that ran for about thirty minutes and then all that stuff got yanked and you never saw it again.

Ed Dames: It was, even Colin Powell, had some problem with that, and of course he stayed on as chairman of the Joint Chiefs [of Staff], but there were many many husbands and brothers and sons that did not go back to Tehran. Anyway that, I thought it was time to leave. I like you, was a young man during the Vietnam era, in uniform like you, and lasted through that, but this one was too much. And then there was one other reason...

Art Bell: Alright, hold that other reason till after the break here at the bottom of the hour. There were some incredibly graphic scenes that CNN ran for a short while at the very beginning of the Iraq War. And then all of that footage got yanked and never repeated. After that it was press conferences and smart bombs and stuff.

[commercials]

Art Bell: Once again here's Ed Dames. Hi Ed.

Ed Dames: Hi.

Art Bell: Alright, you said there was one other reason other than the way we ran the Iraq War that you left, what was the other reason?

Ed Dames: It was the straw that broke the camel's back. We were, I was involved in reverse-engineering some rather exotic weapons, very big weapons, weapons of mass-destruction, they used to be called. There was a particular weapon that, when tested, was so destructive to the environment, actually the atmosphere, and I won't go into details, it was so destructive that I didn't think it warranted a test. That was one of the reasons I left, because it was far from the madding crowd, the Environmental Protection Agency of course was a non-problem, but these tests were very very destructive to the environment, the environment could not re-establish homeostasis, equilibrium, at all. In fact the scientists that I was working with on these weapons, were not even sure that the Earth could even regenerate an atmosphere the size of which was blown away in these tests. In fact, it blew a Mount Everest sized chunk of Earth's atmosphere out into space every time one of these was tested. So that was a little bit too much.

Art Bell: My mouth is wide open. Ed, did we in fact then test this weapon?

Ed Dames: We tested it at least once, yes. So it seemed to me to be, although i'm very patriotic, unconscionable, the wounding the very planet we were born on. I had had enough.

Art Bell: Well that certainly all makes sense. And that was what year when you left the military?

Ed Dames: The end of 1990, '91 actually. I retired in December of '91.

Art Bell: So we've had eight years then, since that weapon you talked about which blew parts of our atmosphere out into space.

Ed Dames: That's correct.

Art Bell: I know it's touchy and that it's hard for you to talk about a lot of that and probably you shouldn't talk about some of it so, we'll leave it there but boy. Alright so I think that we have a pretty good sense now of what Remote Viewing is. You left the military, you formed a company called PSI TECH, and you did work for people who, I don't know, were looking for people, had corporate questions, you took up what kind of assignments?

Ed Dames: We started with the scientific community. Many of these were beltway-bandits, my old cronies in the military-industrial establishment that knew by word of mouth that this team existed and what we could do. And so I took advantage of that propinquity in Washington D.C. to begin to market our company's skills in things like developing advanced propulsion systems or actually in the defense industry, in military intelligence, because that's where we had our roots, and especially scientific and technical intelligence because that's where our expertise was really embedded. We knew what we were doing in terms of advancing engineering, looking at company's engineering devices to see whether or not they would be a dead-end or whether or not they represented something that the company could make a lot of money in. These kinds of things.

Art Bell: That would make sense. I know that you also have done missing children. I know though you don't like it.

Ed Dames: We do those as, the company currently this is many years down the road now, we will take on humanitarian projects, then we'll take on some counter-terrorism projects but we share this openly and we do not, we have turned down government contract projects because we can't talk about the work. Later on in the program I'll talk to you about Project Starman, and it's origins and how because we had a commercial contract to look at the UFO problem in New Mexico, we could not talk a lot about the results and that is what I wanted to avoid. So we use our very successful tape sales, the income and the profit from our company, to fund in-house studies. And I have some exciting things to talk about after I have some very Doctor Doomish things to talk about, vis-a-vis that subject.

Ed Dames: Remote viewing is also consistent and accurate. It's very rigorous. All we use is a pen and paper but the actual discovery was very unique and very classified.

Art Bell: How, by the way, was remote viewing discovered? I guess Ingo Swann…it goes to Ingo Swann doesn't it? And…

Ed Dames: It does. Prior to his discovery, we in the military used altered states. And that was a hit or miss… it worked partially but it was not consistent enough to use in military operations all the time. But Ingo Swann's discovery in '82 changed all of that.

Art Bell: You know, there's something I wanted to ask about. Ingo Swann in '82 yes but even before that. What about certain types of.. in India, for example. Didn't they really almost do remote viewing Ed?

Ed Dames: Absolutely Art. But you have to understand it was tailored for that particular culture and the times that their culture was immersed in. For instance, a savant in India would not be able to describe the interior mechanisms of a nuclear weapon correctly. So, that would be no use to us. We would have to introduce someone like that who was a savant, a clairvoyent… we'd have to introduce him and educate him in what we wanted in terms of technology and that would take many years. Where we, as trained technicians.. I was a scientific and technical intelligence collection officer, was fairly familiar, at least in a general way, with weapons technology. So that when I remote viewed a nuclear weapon or a biologicial warfare plant, I could at least describe what I was viewing. Rather than just say, "a green glass," or, "a glass full of green goo." Something like that.

Art Bell: Exactly right. So in other words, disciplined people like yourself acting for the military, for national security reasons. Put simply… right?

Ed Dames: In those days yes. That was a decade ago. This is PSI TECH's tenth anniversary and we don't do that anymore.

Art Bell: You left the miltary, you founded PSI TECH, a private sector operation.. by the way Ed, how did they feel about that? Do you ever get any feedback from the old group about how they felt about you.. leaving the military and opening up a civilian operation?

Ed Dames: There are two aspects of that. One was that it took everybody by surprise. But you have to remember, and I've mentioned this before, remote viewing was abandoned. It became such a controversial thing, hot potato, if you will, that it was abandoned. And when that happened, then I took it public. Only then - when it was thrown away. Because it's far to valuable a thing to throw away.

Art Bell: But if it's really…really that valuable, they may have publicly, now I know you and I differ on this, publicly abandoned remote viewing as of the Ted Koppel show that revealed to the nation that remote viewing was real and we'd been doing it for twenty years but they abandoned it. You know, if it really works…if it really works Ed, then I don't believe they've abandoned it.

Ed Dames: Art, PSI TECH is the keeper of the keys. We possess the technology and we possess the cutting edge technologies.. This was too big and too controversial a thing for the Department of Defense. PSI TECH has that technology now. In a national emergency the government can turn to us. We've provided continuity and the evolution of the technology in all that time.

Art Bell: Do you think they would, by the way? In other words, if there was a really big national emergency - something horrific. Would they turn to you?

Ed Dames: Absolutely. Stolen nuclear weapon, missing plutonium, something like that.

Art Bell: That's absolutely true. Now.. we have to do this. You know, for the audience. Otherwise I'll get e-mails, "What's remote viewing?" And I know we've explained it so many times, but give it your best 101 short shot. You were in the government remote viewing program.

Ed Dames: I was the Operations and Training Officer for this country's remote viewing program, the psychic spies, a very secret unit.

Art Bell: Which went on for what… twenty years?

Ed Dames: The research part went on for about ten years and there was an overlap of several years between operational employment and research and operations went on for about eight years.

Art Bell: So, a couple of years short of twenty years.

Ed Dames: Right.

Art Bell: And our tax dollars paid for all of that.

Ed Dames: They did.

Art Bell: And you were the Operations Officer for that unit.

Ed Dames: And the Training Officer.

Art Bell: And teach….

Ed Dames: Yes. I was both. It was my job to teach remote viewing to the officers in the unit who became the actual psi spies and I was one of them.

Art Bell: Now, this was the ability of you and others to, for example, view… I don't know.. a gas canister in Iraq or the location thereof or a person or something or another. In other words, you guys are really disciplined psychics… is what I like to call you.

Ed Dames: That's pretty close to what we were. Actually the techniques that we adopted are a set of very rigorous perception management techniques and this allows us as remote viewers to open a window into our own conscious mind or the unconscious part of our own minds…

Art Bell: Sure..

Ed Dames: into the collective unconscious where we can search out anything; a person or place, a thing or an event. All of which exist as a pattern of information. For instance, something may not have even happened yet as an event, but it still exists as a pattern of information. So there is very little difference in the collective unconscious between something that has already manifested, let's say in the past, and something that is a given, a fate complete in the future.

Art Bell: Would you mind giving us a brief explanation of collective unconscious?

Ed Dames: The unconscious part of our own minds… actually there is only one mind, it's a universal mind, called the Mind-God, if you want. But our consciousness is plugged in to that… except there is a liminal gate, a barrier which separates all the information in the universe from our bicameral brains because we can't process that much information. Let's say for instance that a young person takes a hallucinogenic drug like ecstacy….

Art Bell: Yes.. right..

Ed Dames: Well that breaks down that liminal barrier and allows all this unconscious information to start flowing into conscious awareness but it's so much that …

Art Bell: It's overload..

Ed Dames: It is way overload. It's burn-out city.. burns out all the circuits. And so we can't operate like this in our physical world, the world that we live in. So we take, there's a little bit of a streaming effect from unconscious. Our Vice President calls it a trickle down effect, where bit by bit we get this information, this universal information..

Art Bell: A lot of women call it intuition..

Ed Dames: Yes. It is like.. it's also the kind of things that filter out by our dreams at night, but off of which part is very accurate.

Art Bell: So, in other words, there is a great single connected mind out there and our unconscious minds are all part of that and then there is a separation between our unconscious and our conscious minds, sort of a protective barrier, because we could not handle all that information, witness people tripping out on LSD as you pointed out.

Ed Dames: Correct.

Art Bell: That's all correct?

Ed Dames: All correct, yes. What we did in the military was, to use these techniques to be able to jump over remotely in space and time, particularly in spy operations, to find out what the bad guys were doing, or to locate hostages or terrorists. What I did after I left the military unit, was to refine the techniques to allow the techniques to be used for problem solving, so they became very powerful… and error correcting.

Art Bell: Problem solving like… disappeared persons, murders, police investigations of various sorts.. I supposed finding lost treasure… what kinds of problems?

Ed Dames: Let's see… how did Amelia Earhart disapear? What made TWA Flight 800 crash? And it's a three part operation. We have to know how to search this collective unconscious. We have to know the right way to do that. That's setting up the problem like it would be an internet or library search. We have to have the skill, the knowledge, which is trained. That's what my company does exclusively, that's all that we do. We train people how to use this tool. That is a skill. And then we have to know how to analyze the information. That is almost an art. And all of that is taught by our company. Mistakes can be made in any of those three different areas, that are part of this operation called Technical Remote Viewing®.

Art Bell: Mistakes can be made. But under certain conditions you claim 100% accuracy rate. Right?

Ed Dames: That's correct.

Art Bell: And what are those conditions versus the mistakes that can be made?

Ed Dames: If you have a team of trained remote viewers with controls, that is, that two thirds of the team are blind to the target, they do not know what the target is, you simply give these people a random set of numbers and they work the problem. They are taking the task off of the taskmaster's mind. For instance, they are going, that part is telepathy. They are telepathically connecting with the taskmaster's mind to know what the target is. Because unconscious knows, unconscious knows everything, but our conscious awareness doesn't.

Art Bell: So if you were to give the remote viewer the target as opposed to giving it to him mentally, then you would pollute the information you would receive, is that accurate?

Ed Dames: Almost always that's the case. For professionals like myself you could front load the problem and I would not have much of a problem dealing with it unless it were an emotional issue.

Art Bell: An emotional issue.

Ed Dames: Yes. For instance, if someone had abducted one of my sons.

Art Bell: Oh I see.. I see..

Ed Dames: Then I would not be able to really be effective in locating my son because I would be too emotionally distraught on the problem. Also, ethical issues too, arise. For instance, in addition to mistakes, like for instance when we've worked many missing persons and have told many wives and husbands that either their children and spouses were dead and the manner of death and that's not.. we're the only ones in the world that will do that have that kind of confidence rates.

Art Bell: Let me take you back on one that you did do. Remember the Iron Butterfly band member?

Ed Dames: Phillip Kramer. We had to tell his sister that her brother was dead. That's number one. We told Kathy Kramer her brother was dead. We told Kathy Kramer that he was killed in his van within the environment of Los Angeles. But we also said that the body was in Montana, buried in Montana. Now let me tell you that was an analytical error on my part. That was my mistake. That wasn't an error of remote viewing. The reason that happened was the following. Once my team finds that a person is dead,

Art Bell: Yes.

Ed Dames: I'm no longer as much interested in that person, as much as the foul play, I want the bad guys, and I want the bad guys as fast as possible while the trail is still hot. And in Phillip Kramer's case, a couple of things added complexity to the problem. One was that he was involved with some bad elements. In fact, Phillip Kramer was being blackmailed. Now, the Santa Barbara police nor his sister know this, but that is the case. And I'm not going to go into any detail about that. Those people were killers and they had actually killed other people and one of the people that they killed was buried in Montana..

Art Bell: Do you know.. OH so that's how that..

Ed Dames: We slipped looking for the bad guys, this is my, again my analytical mistake. I was so intent on getting the bad guys that I slipped on to someone else that they had killed.

Art Bell: Now maybe you can help me out here because I know they found the Kramer vehicle. They found the body inside but I still am not certain that they have made positive identification, maybe they have now.

Ed Dames: Yes they have.

Art Bell: They have. All right…

Ed Dames: Not cause of death.

Art Bell: Not cause of death..

Ed Dames: We're saying that there was foul play. We're saying that the elements that Phillip Kramer was involved with were not good people and that he was in the process of being blackmailed.

Art Bell: And you're saying that some of the people who did the evil dead also killed somebody else who was, in fact, buried in Montana.

Ed Dames: Yes and that was where I erred. That was my mistake solely. That was not remote viewing's mistake. That was me trying to get the bad guys and this would have been ironed out. We were working fast and furious and we had two other missing children cases at the time.

Art Bell: Well I'm sorry to say you got the main part of it right. He is obviously..

Ed Dames: Well we better be right when we tell, for instance the Clifton girl (missing section) that their child was dead and that the child was trapped, submerged beneath a wire grid, which happened to be a water bed, by the way, she was taped below a waterbed mattress and that we would find the body, subsequent work we would locate the body and we would locate the killers. The killer was found, it was a neighbor boy before we needed to complete any work like that. But that's the kind of confidence level we have. It was easy for us to determine …

11-11-1999

Art Bell: Once again, here's Major Ed Dames. Ed, the country has been gripped, CNN went into full time coverage when the EgyptAir 990 went down. Originally they thought it went straight down from 33,000 feet down to ker-smash in the ocean in 36 seconds. Now we have learned, through radar data, and the retrieval of the black box, that this aircraft, for some absolutely mysterious reason, went from 33,000 feet down to 16 and up to about 23, and then to the ocean. In other words, it did what the FAA called a controlled descent. They actually used those words. And came down from 33,000 feet, something you just don't do, in a commercial airliner without notification of ground control, and that sort of thing. And then plunged into the ocean. It actually also climbed from that altitude just prior to the plunge. So, there's…the auto pilot disconnected. There's all kinds of mysteries surrounding what the hell happened to EgyptAir 990. You've looked at it. What have you found?

Ed Dames: Well first I'd like to express my condolences to those who lost loved ones aboard that flight, Art. And as many of your listeners know, we've got, we have a good example of the way that we attack a problem like this on our web site. You remember the letters and the reports that we sent to the NTSB on TWA flight 800..

Art Bell: Of course.

Ed Dames: Where we said that the air driven pump in system three, that is the right inboard engine, that pump shattered and the shrapnel punctured the fuel tank - that it was indeed a mechanical error.

Art Bell: That's absolutely what you said. Yes.

Ed Dames: And the full report along with our diagrams and descriptions is available on our web site as well as media that you can view if you're interested in it.

Art Bell: And that is, by the way, the most conventionally bought explanation for what happened. So, okay. That was flight 800, now this one.

Ed Dames: Now this one. So, the way we as Technical Remote Viewers, the way that we attack the problem is to simply look for this pattern of information, cause and effect, know what the effect is. The effect is a crash, a crashed aircraft. We're looking or the cause. And those two patterns of information are directly linked in the collective unconscious. So, it's an easily searchable term and it doesn't take a lot of skill to ferret out the answer. So EgyptAir flight 990 crashed and we're looking for the cause of that crash. That's how we search this. After about forty-five minutes of work we have an answer. The answer is that there was a very violent altercation in the cockpit, Art. One of the crew members, or it could have been a flight attendant, it was not a passenger, attacked the pilot from behind. It was a very violent altercation that followed. Part, members of the crew tried to hold down a single individual, but the individual got up again and started, and essentially went postal in the cockpit. That is why, when the cockpit voice recorder is retrieved….

Art Bell: Wow.

Ed Dames: …you'll hear that on the recorder. That should be retrievable as soon as the seas reach lower levels because…

Art Bell: All right… here's a question for you. And this calls for speculation, unfortunately. If that's what occurred, will they, assuming they recover the cockpit voice recorder, would they release that, Ed, or not?

Ed Dames: Actually, that's an interesting question. And I think that the answer is yes because you're dealing with the safety of passengers. If something breaks on an aircraft, the airline industry needs to know that, and people need to know that so that fix occurs.

Art Bell: Of course.

Ed Dames: If something is wrong with a crew member, in this case, I know a little about the crew member. This individual was not balanced, felt very offended at something, and that's as much as I know. I did not go into the individual's mind or backtrack to his home life. It was a male. I think that….

Art Bell: It was a male?

Ed Dames: It was a male that attacked the pilot from behind, yes. Either a crew member or possibly a flight attendant. It was not one of the passengers. The passengers were oblivious to this until the plane descended.

Art Bell: Wow. I don't know what to say to that. That's….

Ed Dames: Well, it will come out. I'm pretty sure they've got a lock on the cockpit voice recorder. So if they retrieve that, it's going to have to come out. And the reason it would have to come out is because, simply, to better screen crew members in the future for stability, you know, emotional/mental stability. I think that, even something like that would have to occur. We do that in our armed forces when, in submarine crews, for instance….

Art Bell: I know. We do.

Ed Dames: I'm not saying the same criteria should be applied….

Art Bell: It never, you never fail to blow me away. Every time you're on this program. I think you're going one place and you go some place altogether different.

Ed Dames: Well, it's just direct knowledge, Art. We all have these conspiracy theories and we think we, mind tries to figure it out. But the truth is always very simple, very direct. That's why I love my work. Remote viewing is a great tool. It gets right to the answers. Nothing hides. Even more interesting is to turn the tool on to one's self…. take a look at those unanswered questions in your own life.

12-08-1999

Art Bell: Well, (laughs) that's right. So there you are. All right. Gee, I don't even know where to begin. The last time you were on, the big news was Flight 990.

Ed Dames: Witness the turtle. It only makes progress by sticking its neck out.

Art Bell: Well,

Ed Dames: People thought I stuck my neck out.

Art Bell: I thought you.. I thought you were.. you know, I said to myself, "Man, he's really done it this time. Because, they're gonna bring up these black boxes in the next couple of days, and he's gonna get blown right out of the water."

Ed Dames: Now, remember, that our company's reputation is on the line on something like that.

Art Bell: Yeah, I guess.

Ed Dames: Both me and the company. But it really wasn't a risk at all. Once you master Technical Remote Viewing skills, you can trust the data enough to be able to do that enough to do that and know that you're not taking a risk. That, and because of the crash of EgyptAir Flight 990 only takes intermediate skills in remote viewing, many of the tape trainees could have done that. So, it really was not a difficult problem to solve.

Art Bell: Well, it sure did blow me away. I mean, when they came out with the news the next week, after they brought up those flight recorders, I went, "Oh my god."

Ed Dames: Yeah. I told you, they would bring, when the cockpit voice recorder is brought up, it will validate what I just said.

Art Bell: Yeah. And it did. Is there any more on it? Have you done any further work on 990… interesting thing, you know, they were saying, rather conclusively on our side, what had occurred, what they thought had occurred. And then the Egyptian government began to apply incredible pressure, politically, and now, you don't even hear about Flight 990 anymore.

Ed Dames: It's been politicized. But that could have been predicted. It doesn't take a remote viewer to predict what would have happened for Egyptair and the Egyptian government, to even suggest or intimate, that one of their crew members had a psychological problem would be,

Art Bell: Unacceptable.

Ed Dames: Very unacceptable to their state department. It reminds me, the situation, reminds me very much of the O.J. Simpson trial. My company, when we were based in Beverly Hills, was very very much involved in locating the Nicole Simpson murder weapon, the weapon itself. We spent a lot of time and effort to pinpoint the location of the weapon and attempt to retrieve it. But it reached a point where it would not have made any difference anyway, because the trial was so political in nature.

Art Bell: I watched every day of that trial, religiously. I don't know what it was about that trial but…

Ed Dames: Well, the politics overruled justice, in that case. And this situation, Flight 990, reminds me of that in certain ways.

Art Bell: Politics, actually, overrules a lot of stuff, Ed.

Ed Dames: Unfortunately, yes.

Art Bell: A lot of stuff. Listen, we've got a presidential race looming on the horizon, assuming the horizon continues to be there. And, George W. Bush is running and so is McCaine. And McCaine has now, in some polls, taken a lead over Bush. Have you remote viewed the results of the next presidential election?

Ed Dames: No, I have not. It's not something that I would normally have any interest in, whatsoever, but it is imminently doable. In the past, in past elections, we've done things like this. It's tantamount to remote viewing the outcome of a sporting event, the super bowl, or something like that. Now, you can't resolve the problem, however, unless it has already been adjudicated and the likelihood is 100%, in terms of the matrix or the collective unconscious. And that may be as late as two weeks prior to the election, or it could be much earlier, up to six months, or seven months.

Art Bell: In other words, until it becomes locked into the timeline, so to speak, you can't say absolutely?

Ed Dames: That's correct. You can say that. Until the likelihood on the horizon, becomes, I use that term loosely, becomes 100%, we're not going to be able to determine the winner. But let's say that the outcome is already determined in the Matrix, in the collective unconscious,

Art Bell: All right….

Ed Dames: The area that we remote view.. mind is unitary. It's a single mind in the universe. We're all part of that. So that every thing exists as a pattern of information, a thing or an event. If this is already a fait a compli, then we can very easily remote view the outcome and describe the winner of the next presidential election. We can describe the person physically, the person's family, and it's easy to deduce based upon very rudimentary data, in a very cursory sketches, who is the winner - if that has been resolved. I remember an interesting case, years ago, where we gave this target to my Vice President, the winner of the next presidential election…we gave this target to my Vice President and some students that I had at the time…

Art Bell: Yes.

Ed Dames: And all of the participants in this project, who worked this blind, they did not know what the target is,

Art Bell: Right..

Ed Dames: The same way that we train…they sketched people sitting in front of the television. That's it. Not a winner of an election. And that is the way that the collective unconscious, or the matrix, and by the way, we used that term long before the movie did, told us that the outcome had not yet been determined as far as we're concerned.

Art Bell: Well, what did that mean… people sitting in front of a TV… they were watching the election results come in?